1) Please read Frankenstein by Mary Shelley - Chapters III-VIII (pp. 23-60)
2) Complete a blog response using the prompt below (use direct quotations from the text).
Prompt: a) One way to read the final chapters of Volume One is to consider what Mary Shelley might be saying about the justice system. What is the problem with the judicial system?
b) Also, is Frankenstein a condemnation of science? Given what you have read so far, what examples from our current society do you see metaphorically happening in this novel?
A) Throughout these last chapters, the theme of the judicial system being bias and unjust is very prevalent. This is seen through such things as religion, Ego, and precautionary measures which lead people and judges to make faulty decisions. One example of this lies within Justine's religious way of thought. She believes that as a good christian she should relinquish her sins and confess, believing it is the right thing to do, even though she knows she didn't murder William. The only real "proof" against her was her possession of a photo charm of William that he had aswell when he was discovered. Based on this and other false information, Justine was charged guilty and set to be executed. Knowing that she did not kill William, in reference to the court, Frankenstein writes, “it is decided as you may have expected; all judges had rather that ten innocent should suffer than that one guilty should escape." Frankenstein, aswell as Shelley both believe the court room and judicial way of trial is unjust and bias.
ReplyDeleteB) I don't believe Frankenstein as a novel showcases a disapproval of science as in the literal sense of the word condemnation, however I think that it more appropriately showcases the idea of substituting one's one science or theories based on denial and disbelief of already existing principles. Physiologically speaking, Victor is in denial that his mother passed away, and there is nothing that he can do to bring her back, so with his physical and mental knowledge on the matter, he creates a way to reject that theory of permanent death by creating his own answer through reincarnation: the creation of his monster. This idea of not listening to reality, and substituting other theories in which you want to listen and side with is very prevalent within the government today. Not going into specifics of right or wrong, or who or what factions do this, but climate change and the rejection of it is a huge topic of discussion within our government today.
A) The last two chapters brings attention to the bias and wrongdoings of the justice system. The book describes how the courts used evidence which “might have staggered any one”(55). Furthermore, although Justine is clearly innocent, there is no swaying the judges. Thus, she is pressured to not only plead guilty but also to die. Both Frankenstein and Shelley believe the judicial system is unfair and bias.
ReplyDeleteB) Frankenstein does not condemn science as a whole, but instead the trade of an individual’s soul and sense of consequence in pursuit of success that can occur when following the subject. Frankenstein’s health plummets as he spends day and night attempting to bring a dead man back to life. This drive causes Frankenstein to lose touch with his own humanity and joy; he describes “I seemed to have lost all soul or sensation but for this one pursuit”(33). In turn, he never questions the repercussions of his creation. Only when it stirs does Frankenstein doubt. If he retained his humanity, Frankenstein might not have dealt with his creation so poorly. Through her writing, Shelley is noting the lack of caution when dealing with new discoveries and topics.
A) Mary Shelley shows the injustice of the justice system in these chapters. Not only is the justice system not just, Frankenstein betrays Justine by not confessing to the truth and revealing that Justine was not guilty. Frankenstein also portrays the justice system as harsh and unfeeling.
ReplyDeleteB) I do not think that it is a commendation of science but rather a commendation of isolated science, having something take over your life is not good. If he had been open with his work and got other opinions than it may not have turned out so badly. It is a warning against anything that overtakes you and isolates you. “Every night I was oppressed by a slow fever, and I became nervous to a most painful degree; the fall of a leaf startled me, and I shunned my fellow creatures as if I had been guilty of a crime”. This quote shows how isolated Frankenstein is and how it negatively affects him.
I choose to go with prompet 2 with this which is “Also, is Frankenstein a condemnation of science? Given what you have read so far, what examples from our current society do you see metaphorically happening in this novel?” frankenstein is a dead person brought back to life something that seems to be a good thing but sometimes doing something blindly without giving thought to the consequences can be such a dangerous thing while progress is a good thing sometimes too much of a good thing is bad, take AI for example something only seen before in sci fi films are now but they grow at a very fast rate in fact AI from 2001 to 2018 has been improved over a trillion fold. They now beat us at chess and they could easily replace both low and high skill labor jobs and now we have to wonder how to accept them and use them in a way that benefits the world for everyone ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU&t=8s ) that's a link to a youtube video i found really interesting on this topic. Brodie
ReplyDeleteA) Mary Shelley debates whether or not the Justice system is, as its name implies, just. Her perspective is that it isn't just which is evident through the trial in the novel using an incidental photograph as proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. This implies that she believes that the Justice system operates on a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality in opposition to what it should be. She also criticizes the justice system with the religious aspect of the trial which compels false testimony. "I did confess; but I confessed a lie. I confessed, that I might obtain absolution; but now that falsehood lies heavier at my heart than all my other sins…ever since I was condemned, my confessor has beseiged me; he threatened and menaced, until I almost began to think that I was the monster that he said I was…” (62)
ReplyDeleteB) Frankenstein seems to be more of a critique about the moral aspects of science and therefore is less a critique of a subject of study, and more a critique of a facet of human nature (curiosity). Therefore it is not a direct condemnation, but instead a warning for the use of such a powerful tool by humans who are susceptible to corruption and greed.
-Yuval
Prompt (A) What is the problem with the judicial system? The problem Mary Shelley highlights in Frankenstein is to do with the partisan bias toward decision-making. To agree with Steven, that in reference to the court, “It is decided as you may have expected; all judges had rather that ten innocent should suffer than that one guilty should escape." (Victor Frankenstein), the nature of the courts are unequal and unjust. Prompt (B). Also, is Frankenstein a condemnation of science? Sub-titled The Modern Prometheus, the novel is a cautionary tale against the dangers of taking science to the extreme; [taking it into human hands or in Victor Frankenstein's case, having a God-Complex] which leads to disaster.
ReplyDeleteMary Shelley believes that the Justice system is unjust because the courts are using the system of guilty until proven otherwise and although today’s courts are moving away from this system, it is still a far way until we arrive at where the justice system should be. Mary Shelley also conveys that the criminal justice system as “harsh” and “unfeeling”. These feelings can be seen through the murder of Justine Moritz by the government all because one of the servants saw the picture of her mother in the clothes she wore on the day of the murder of William and that the government believed that the picture was incentive enough for her to kill William.
ReplyDeleteMary Shelley uses Victor to show us what will happen if science goes too far. In the book, Victor pursues the life of a scientist because he is fascinated by the aftermath of a lightning bolt hitting a tree. He goes down the path of science and this has pushed him too far since he revives a dead person which is a taboo (Afterall the dead should remain dead no matter how much it hurts). This story is kind of like the story of Icarus where once he goes too far and ends up melting his wings when he gets too close to the sun. In Frankenstein, there are clear examples demonstrating that science must be handled ethically and with caution. Starting with Waltons desire to go to a dangerous place to Victor making Frankenstein.
A. In these chapters Mary Shelley is clearly saying that the justice system is biased and unjust. Justine was innocent, and Victor knew but didn't say anything.
ReplyDeleteB. I don't think that Frankenstein is a condemnation of science, but rather a look at the capabilities of science and what happens if you take things too far. I believe that metaphorically the creature he made was a monster that could be inside anyone. I don't believe that it is healthy to be so focused on something for months without connections to family or just something like sunlight.
A. ) The problem shown with the judicial system is that the judges declared Justine guilty based off of "circumstantial evidence". There wasn't any real evidence to condemn her, yet she was still claimed guilty. Justice isn't something you can be carefree about; it has to be fair process for all people for it to work.
ReplyDeleteB.) I don't believe Frankenstein is a condemnation of science. He had an idea that he was so incredibly passionate about, that he would go on days working on without sleep, and didn't stop to think of the consequences. Throughout the chapters we see that his obsession has made him ignore his family who loves him and misses him. In Frankenstein's defense, if he were to surround himself with his friends and family during that time they would've thought he was a madman. Nonetheless, he shouldn't of isolated himself because that departure from reality helped fuel his mad science experiment.
A) The problem with the judicial system is that there was no further investigation after the photo was found on Justine's person. With just the one piece of evidence she was sent to death. It is especially unfair that the evidence to get her out of the situation was known by Frankenstein but he did not admit it. Which is not so much a problem with the system but an inconsiderate move on Victors part.
ReplyDeleteB) Before being asked this question I had not thought of Frankentstein as a condemnation of science but I see now the direction pointing to that as a possible deeper meaning. From what I have read so far it seems as though the author made a point to show us how captivated Victor was with science and how his obsession led to his personal downfall. To add on to that once Victor knew too much, enough to create a monster, it comes back and bites him in the butt when his creation kills two members of his family.
A. Mary Shelley's problem with the judicial system seems to be the fact that it is biased and not fair for most people. This is shown by the trial of Justine where she is clearly innocent but the judges already have their minds set on the fact that she is guilty and there is no swaying their opinion.
ReplyDeleteB. I feel as though Frankenstein is more of a cautionary tale of how science can go to far rather than a tale condemning it . I can see connections to today's society in the fact that we have the technology and ability to do something but we don't really stop to ask ourselves if it is necessary or the right thing to do or not. It also connects to the fact that when science goes to far it can have repercussions like Victor's monster killing two of his family members. A good sort of modern day example of this would be the atomic bomb
Evan Arhelger
(A) Throughout the last few chapters Mary Shelly highlights a few issues within the judicial system - some even having to do with simple decision making. the novel describes how evidence is considered and utilized as something which "... might have staggered anyone..." (55) And in this same context Frankenstein himself knew the truth and as Connor points out, he then lets Justine be condemned for a crime she did not commit. Which is unjust within itself. This however highlights Mary Shellys points of the judicial system being corrupt, and full of hidden biasies( I think thats how you spell it.) However this is even a prevalent issue now with our justice system in the early 19th century and current justice system now. But that would be another story entirely.
ReplyDelete(B) I think Frankenstein isn't a condemnation of science as a opposed to an introspective look into how 'curiosity killed the cat'. His veiws show how sometimes things are best left to the imagination. As we can see with the creation as well as the following events that ensue.
A.) Shelley seems to be expressing that the justice system often cares more about punishing someone than getting actual justice. They were so quick to condemn Justine with barely any evidence and didn’t seem to investigate as much as they should have. Justine sees the justice system as just and fair and that if she confesses for a crime she didn’t commit it will benefit her because she was truthful. “I did confess; but I confessed a lie. I confessed, that I might obtain absolution”.
ReplyDeleteB.) This book does seem to be condemning science as a bringer of destruction. All of Frankensteins pursuits have ended in tragedy. Although designer babies haven't been fully created and distributed yet, I see them as similar to the creation in the sense that they are meant to be created as ideal specimen of the human race and while the creation of the creature went wrong so could the creation of designer babies.
a) These chapters portray the judicial system as unjust and unfair. Justine did not get a fair trial, and was put to death after the only evidence against her was a picture in her pocket. The system appears to be harsh and unfeeling, and follows a pattern of guilty until proven innocent, which nowadays it is innocent until proven guilty. The judges believed from the very beginning that Justine was guilty, and that disadvantage lead to her death.
ReplyDeleteb) I don't think Frankenstein is a condemnation of science but rather a condemnation of the obsession a scientist can have with a certain experiment or outcome. Frankenstein isolates himself from his friends and family for his creation, but this creation becomes his downfall. I agree with skye when she mentioned the phrase "curiosity killed the cat" because I think Frankenstein provides a good example of it.
a) The last couple of chapters clearly show what Mary Shelley might think of the judicial system. A quote that stood out to me and I am sure many others is “It is decided as you may have expected; all judges had rather that ten innocent should suffer than that one guilty should escape". This quote by Victor is probably one of my favorites from the entirety of the book. It is just a really interesting concept to me that the judges would rather be THAT safe than sorry even if it means hurting an alarming amount of innocent people with their own families and lives. That definitely is a poor light shined on the judicial system by Mary Shelley.
ReplyDeleteb) I believe that Frankenstein is made to look like a condemnation of science on the outside but when the reader really looks deeper into Mary Shelley's writing, that is clearly not the case. I think he is more a symbol of the unknown and how too much of anything could cause a great danger. Victor's obsession shows how a hobby or liking can get bad fast and it could happen to anyone.
A) Mary Shelley conveys that the judicial system is unjust through the process in which Justine is convicted. She is accused of murder solely based on the fact that she was in possession of a picture William was said to have. Justine explains to Victor that she in is innocent but later pleads guilty hoping to get a lesser punishment, but unfortunately Justine is executed for this. This is an example of the system being unjust because the only evidence against Justine was an idea from a servant, but in the end it ended up taking her life.
ReplyDeleteB) I feel like Frankenstein does not condemn science as a whole, but is almost a little warning as not to go too far with it. To not "play god" and make things into what they shouldn't be. I think Mary Shelly respects science to some degree but also is weary of it, and showcases that in the novel.
A) I think she doesn’t like them. The system isn’t doing their job correctly by sentencing Justine to death when she proclaims her innocence. The system isn’t being realistic with their small piece of proof against Justine. She calmly goes through the trial with the defense from Elizabeth while Victor watches.
ReplyDeleteB) No, I don’t think Frankenstein is a condemnation of science. I think he finally creates this monster that he can use but it doesn't really work out for him. He becomes distressed when he finds out that his monster kills two members of his family.
Sarah Walsh
a) In the last chapters of Volume One, Justine is unfairly accused of the murder of William Frankenstein because a servant found a picture of Caroline Frankenstein in Justine’s possession which had last been seen on William. This is not enough evidence to incriminate someone, however the judicial system did so anyways. In chapter 7, Mary Shelley writes “if she is, as you believe, innocent, rely in the justice of our laws, and the activity with which I shall prevent the slightest shadow of partiality.” We later read that the “justice of our laws” didn’t save Justine. Mary Shelley is trying to say that despite the fact that the Frankenstein family knows that Justine is innocent, and the reader knows that Justine is innocent, the fact that she’s still accused and incriminated shows how unfair the judicial system is. It’s trying to provide justice for the murder of William, and solve the mystery despite the fact that the person being accused isn’t the one who commited the murder - they’re just looking for somebody to blame.
ReplyDeleteb) I don’t think that Frankenstein is a condemnation of science purely because all Frankenstein wanted was to make something that was better than human kind, because he thinks humankind is flawed, and he wants to fix that flaw. Frankenstein is an example of what happens when one takes science too far, and to focus on only one thing for so long that you lose track of everything.
Mary Shelley shows how the courts are not always reliable. Even though justine is innocent she gets pressured into pleading guilty when no one believes her and ends up being executed as a result. This shows how the courts failed to recognize an innocent person who was framed for murder.
ReplyDeleteWhile it is showing that science took over Frankenstein's life, got out of control, and ended up killing many people, I do not think that it is condemning science. Victor turned away from society and fed his obsession instead of really dealing with his problems than turned his back on his creation, escentially leaving it to do whatever it wants, which is what caused the creation to turn bad in the first place. I think that the book is condemning Frankenstein's choices to not deal with his problems more than it is condemning science.
1. When Justine receives the accusation of Williams murder it is very clear that nobody has any other leads so they grasp on to the tiniest thread they can find. It shows how unfair the justice system is because they don't really care about serving justice to the right people, it's not about the people. All they care about is solving a case, they don't want to look bad and make it seem like they can't do their jobs. So if they can accuse and incriminate somebody they will, just to close a case.
ReplyDelete2. I don't think Frankenstein is a condemnation of science, I think that there were good intentions behind the creation, but every new thing is a prototype. Scientists will always try to make something bigger and better, but it takes a few trials to get exactly what they want. However, nothing will ever be perfect, perfection is a flaw in itself.
A) Mary Shelley express her opinion about the justice system during that time throughout the chapters 6-8 in the novel. She claims that the justice system wasn't fair towards women and that court was trying to find a quick way to resolve the problem, even if the person is innocent.
ReplyDeleteB) In my opinion, Frankenstein is not a condemnation of science, because all Victor wants is to reincarnate his dead mother, but Victor doesn't think about effects of his doings, so as in every novel something goes wrong and Victor creates a monster that wasn't in his plans to do.
Roman Shepeliev