2) Please respond to the text. Use direct examples from the novel, but make connections to the things we talked about today dealing with our choices in life partners. Also, please ask me questions. Let me know what you would like to discuss. What is confusing? What would you like to discuss further?
"Are you playing hard to get, you elegant female?"
"I am declining your offer with a decapitation!"
"I married him...and all I got was this hat."
"And a marriage bed, my dear! Do not forget that!"
"Yes... how could I forget that...I really am happy....so.....so.....happy...."
"I married him...and all I got was this hat."
"And a marriage bed, my dear! Do not forget that!"
"Yes... how could I forget that...I really am happy....so.....so.....happy...."
While reading this section I was finally introduced to Lady Catherine De Bourgh, she was exactly what I expected. She has a prominent presence, and is a "tall, large woman" (110). Mr. Collins also reveals that "she likes to have the distinction of rank preserved." (110). Which I assume means that she doesn't like to see people act more important than what they are (ex. She wouldn't want to see a peasant dress or act like a prince.) I also found the conversation about Lizzy's upbringing funny. It almost seemed like the point of asking Lizzy about whether she and her sisters could play piano, sing, draw, etc, was just to be condescending.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Does Charlotte ever regret marrying Mr. Collins, or does she just not care?
From all that I've read, it seems to me that she is fine with her decision.
DeleteIt is also mentioned that Charlotte tends to be embarrassed when he speaks for instance she has a"faint color" spread across her face when Mr.Collins is talking with her family and Elizabeth. But to answer your question, I think as we've said in class, Charlotte is very practical and did this strictly for the sake of living "comfortably"
Delete-Skye Padovani
I agree that Charlotte is content with her marriage. On page 107, Elizabeth remarked that "When Mr. Collins could be forgotten, there was really a great air of comfort through". To be fair, she had pretty low expectations going into marrying Mr. Collins(mostly financial stability), and so far these expectations have been met. I'm also getting a sense that Charlotte has adapted to filter out much of Mr. Collin's idiosyncrasies-which likely makes him more tolerable.
DeleteLike we discussed in class I feel that when it comes to Wickham, Elizabeth is quick to defend for example when Mrs. Gardiner told “But he paid her not the smallest attention till her grandfather’s death made her mistress of this fortune.” she replied with “No–what should he? If it were not allowable for him to gain my affections because I had no money, what occasion could there be for making love to a girl whom he did not care about, and who was equally poor?” and but when it comes to Darcy she is quick to criticize. Also like Trevor said Lady de Bourgh is the kind of person that demands respect and also I feel the conversation of upbringing was not only to be condescending but also kind of judging whether or not she should be talking and spending her time with them.
ReplyDeleteNow that we finally got to meet Lady Catharine De Bourgh, I see a lot of similarities between her and Mr. Collins- especially when she inquires about Elizabeth's family life and upbringing. She obviously wants to figure out Elizabeth's social standing and that of her immediate family. Lady Catherine de Bourgh even says to Elizabeth, "I am shocked and astonished. I expected to find a more reasonable young women"(112). She says this to Elizabeth while asking her to play a piano, with her lack of musical ability Lady Catherine de Bough basically deems her as an unfit women in her day. She then follows with, "I will not go away till you have given me the assurance I require"(112). This aspect reminded me of Mr. Collins when he was so over confident on the marriage proposal and would not take no for an answer, because Lady Catherine de Bough doesn't even give Elizabeth an option to say no at this point in the story.
ReplyDeleteAfter many speeches and praisings, Mr Collins finally introduces Elizabeth and the audience to Catherine de Bourgh. Like Trevor mentioned, she has a large presence in her home and neighborhood. With such wealth and splendor surrounding her, it’s no surprise that Lady Catherine is written as a very conceited and demanding figure. As a result, “she was not rendered formidable by silence; but whatever she said, was spoken in so authoritative a tone, as marked her self-importance…”(136). This notion of self-importance is not expressed the same as her nephew’s, which is more based on demeanor, but through her constant need to give her opinion and advice to others. She feels that she is so important and essential to society that everyone flocks to her for aid. So, when talking with Elizabeth, “I have told Miss Bennet several times, that she will never play really well, unless she practises more…”(146). Her rudeness embarrasses Mr. Darcy, which I think is a funny connection to when Elizabeth’s mother humiliated her by insulting Darcy in Netherfield. It seems like Lady Catherine enjoys hearing herself talk. Like Elizabeth observed, “There was little to be done but to hear Lady Catherine talk, which she did without any intermission till coffee came in, delivering her opinion on every subject in so decisive a manner, as proved that she was not used to have her judgement converted”(137).
ReplyDeleteIn these few chapters, we are introduced to Lady Catherine de Bourgh. She was described as a “tall, large woman, with strongly marked features.” It felt like when she went into a room, all the attention was on her. She later told Mrs. Bennett how much of a failure she was for failing to have a governess and her kid’s lack of musical talent. In these chapters, she is all I expected her to be, completely entitled and has a strong presence.
ReplyDeleteMost people are talking about Lady Catherine and how we're introduced to her, yet I feel we knew her exact character even before the direct characterization. What I feel is a more noteworthy topic of discussion is the entirety of chapter 33, and the interesting, Irony filled conversation between Colonel Fitzwilliams and Elizabeth; as pertaining to Darcy's actions in the Bingley/Jane relationship. Due to the ignorance of Fitzwilliams not knowing the woman of interest is Elizabeth's sister, and her not wanting to tell Fitzwilliams, the whole dynamic becomes a huge game of misleading details, bursts of "thoughtful" emotion from Elizabeth, and inquiring questions from Fitzwilliams. The whole scene is a mess, yet in retrospect you don't even know if indeed it is the relationship between Bingley and Jane Darcy interfered with. It is said by Fitzwilliams that "What he told me is merely this; that he congradulated himself on having lately saved a friend from the inconveniences of a most imprudent marraige, but without mentioning names or other particulars...(126)".Either it is Jane's relationship, in which Darcy has some explaining to do... or it's not, and Jane Austen is just teasing us at what could be.
DeleteWe finally meet Catherine de Bourgh after hearing Mr. Collins talk about her all the time. She strikes me as a very stuck up person who judges people mainly on their social status and feels the need to establish that she is better than everyone else. This is made clear when she says “What all five at once? Very odd- and you only the only the second.- The younger ones out before the elder are married!” (113). I understand how she would be surprised but I also think that she talks down to Elizabeth with the way she continuosly presses her for information on her family and social class. Mr. Collins even says that “she likes to have the distinction of rank preserved” (110). Also during this section it becomes more and more clear that Mr.Darcy likes Elizabeth. This is made apparent by his visits to see her and while he may not talk much there isn't really any other reason for his visits as it seems very uncharacteristic of him to just stop by. Charlotte also seems very surprised at first. She says “ My dear Eliza, he must be in love with you” (122) and also mentions that Mr. Darcy could be interested in her a few other times. However it seems more and more unlikely that anything will happen between Elizabeth and Mr.Darcy after she learns he played a part in separating Jane and Mr. Bingley.
ReplyDeleteLady Catherine de Bourgh's personality seems like that of a stereotypical stern grandmother (how old is she?) since she is constantly making comments about how the Collins should improve themselves; "She examined into their employments, looked at their work, and advised them to do it differently; found fault with the arrangement of the furniture; or detected the housemaid in negligence"(115) I guess the "strongly marked features" (110) imply age. These chapters seem to showcase many of the possible relationships between partners. There is the Wickham situation, where he flits from person to person constantly. There is the Mr. Bingley 'Love at First Sight' type deal. There is the practical marriage of Charlotte and Mr. Collins. Finally there is the nervous, awkward sort of thing going on with Mr. Darcy in regards to Elizabeth.
ReplyDelete-Yuval
Question: Why did Darcy break up Mr. Bingley and Jane? He couldn't have possibly thought that they weren't fit for each other after they hit it off so well...
As I read I feel more and more bad for Charlotte Lucas. It is clear she only married Mr Collins because she felt it was her only option. For the entirety of their marriage I know that Mr Collins' personality will continuously drown her out, like on page 107 when Austen says, "When Mr Collins could be forgotten, there was really a great air of comfort throughout, and by Charlotte's evident enjoyment of it, Elizabeth supposed she must be often forgotten." After finally meeting the famous Catherine de Bourgh, I feel that her and Mr Collins are certainly a better match than any of the other pairs we've seen so far in this book. However, they probably wouldn't work for long because two dominant personalities would eventually cause many, many problems. I do agree with Katy when she describes how similar their demeanors are when Lady Catherine doesn't let Elizabeth leave the piano until she plays better and when Mrs Collins won't take no for an answer with his marriage proposal.
ReplyDelete-ali keamy
I feel like Mrs. Gardener and Elizabeth’s conversation reveals some of her hypocritical beliefs. Eliza is quick to defend him pursuing Miss King arguing that, “If it was not allowable for him to gain my affections, because I have no money, what occasion could there be for making love to a girl whom he did not care about, and who was equally poor”(105). Though she understands her aunt’s concerns about him courting her so soon after the death of her father, she is awfully quick to defend a man she has only known a short while. It’s peculiar that she was so harsh towards her best friend Charlotte for accepting Mr. Collins because she married him for his wealth, yet she is so quick to defend Mr Wickham for trying to do the same. I think one of the reasons to Elizabeth’s fondness for Mr. Wickham is because of the niche that he filled. With her mom going marriage crazy, creepy Mr. Collins, losing Charlotte, Jane’s heartbreak, confusion over Mr. Darcy, and a financially uncertain future, Mr. Wickham is a welcomed distraction. I think much of the chaos in her life and her infatuation with him leads her to excuse many of his questionable characteristics.
ReplyDeleteOn page 109, Elizabeth describes Miss de Bourgh saying, “I like her appearance...she looks sick and cross-Yes, she will do for him very well. She will make him a very proper wife”(108-109). Is she throwing shade at Mr. Bingley for hurting her sister?
Lady Catherine de Bourgh is another archetypal character, everyone knows someone like her. She is a critical older women that always has something nice about her daughter and something critical about someone else to say, “ I shall charge her not to neglect it on any account. I often tell young ladies that no excellence in music is to be acquired without constant practice”. I do not see her playing a large role in the story going forward, her daughter will grow into a more influential role. Although the Anne has been introduced we do not know much about her other than she is not well. She might be set to marry Mr. Darcy, Lady Catherine de Bourgh is certainly interested in Mr. Darcy, “ she was, in fact, almost engrossed by her nephews, speaking to them, especially to Darcy, much more than to any other person in the room”. We already know Mr. Darcy is set to marry Anne and Lady Catherine de Bourgh is probably the person who will push for that since Darcy’s father is dead. That adds another layer to Elizabeth’s and Darcy's relationship, Darcy's certainly seems interested in Elizabeth, he walked with her often went to her house soon after arriving. On the other hand Elizabeth does not share those feelings, she strongly dislikes him based off of first impressions and Mr. Wickham’s account. It is shaping up so that Darcy will try to get Elizabeth but she will reject him but then she might change her mind but at that point Darcy might be in the process of marrying Anne de Bourgh. Another relationship that might have hope is Jane and Bingley, Darcy did not seem to know that Jane was in London and if Darcy did not know then Bingley certainly did not. Also, if he did not know Jane was in London then he would not have prevented the marriage between Bingley and Jane.
ReplyDelete-Conor Walsh
Catherine de Bourgh is exactly who I expected her to be. She's someone who makes themselves feel superior by making others around them feel inferior. Like Conor, I agree that we all know someone just like her. She makes others feel bad themselves but disguises it in a concerning mother way. In her head, she could be convincing herself that she’s doing it for the better good, and she could think that she knows best. We now know where Mr. Collins get his sense of self importance. In the previous chapters, Mr. Collins would keep talking about himself, thinking that he was doing Elizabeth a favor by proposing to her. As Elizabeth says “Nothing was beneath this great Lady’s attention, which could furnish her with an occasions of dictating to others.”
ReplyDeleteThis book doesn't not wait for anything it's like a rollercoaster but you start at the top it starts with The grandeur of Rosings Park foretold by Mr. Collins is felt by the Hunsford party, though Elizabeth is equal to Lady Catherine’s authoritative air by astonishing her with her decided opinions and impertinent replies. Nothing is beneath the great Lady’s notice by officiating over her community and scolding them into harmony. While Elizabeth plays the pianoforte she teases Darcy about his behavior while in Hertfordshire. He exclaims that neither of them perform to strangers. Darcy visits the Parsonage frequently. Charlotte thinks he is in love with her friend, though Elizabeth disagrees. Elizabeth learns from Col Fitzwilliam that Darcy contrived to divide her sister Jane from Mr. Bingley. Darcy visits Elizabeth alone at Hunsford and proposes despite his objection to her family. She refuses him, explaining that he is the last man in world she would be prevailed upon to marry. The next day Darcy presents her with a letter explaining the offenses against him made by her. He admits to separating Mr. Bingley and Jane. He did however honor his father’s request and paid Wickham for the living in the church he chose not to take. Wickham squanders the money and then plans an elopement with Georgiana, Darcy’s sister for her money and to injure him. He has faithfully revealed all and closes by adding “God bless you.” -Brodie Turner
ReplyDeleteCuriously, it would seem if Mr.Collins appears to Charlotte Lucas as the only option to whom to marry; it would seem that rather than marry based on superficial means, she marries with the reasoning of finding "happiness" (which she lacks to understand where she can source that "happiness" from). It was "When Mr Collins could be forgotten, there was really a great air of comfort throughout, and by Charlotte's evident enjoyment of it, Elizabeth supposed she must be often forgotten." Additionally, when it came to meeting Lady Catherine de Bourgh, the point where she's utterly shocked (about the lack of a governess), she labels the Bennets as soon as she discovers this horrible truth, she terms "Without a governess, you must have been neglected."
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aadith that Elizabeth is still not seeing anything but the good side of Mr. Wickham. She is so quick to make excuses for his behavior but anything that Darcy does she turns her nose up at. When she was at the piano and he walked up her first assumption was that he was there to scare her, “‘You mean to frighten me, Mr. Darcy, by coming in all this state to hear me?’” (118). She doesn’t even give herself time to entertain any other ideas of what his motives could be before she condemns him. I agree with Samantha about how Mr. Wickham is a welcomed distraction in Lizzy's chaotic life. He acts in her mind as a constant good, an example of the perfect gentleman that she can always rely on to be good and respectable. I’m interested to see how she reacts and how she will be shaken when she starts to open her eyes and see all his accusations towards Darcy aren’t necessarily true. I understand and agree with Charlotte's choice in accepting Mr. Collins proposal. In that time period and world she didn’t have many options other than marriage and she was 27, not particularly attractive, and not that wealthy so her marital choices were very slim if even existent. Mr. Collins is creepy but not the worst man around and could give her a stable and comfortable life, plus her getting married benefited her family so although she didn’t marry for love I think she made a good choice because she is comfortable and content, which were her priorities.
ReplyDeleteIn chapters 21-26, we finally introduced the new character Lady Catherine de Bourgh. She is the real stereotype of grandmother. She doesn’t like to see people who trying to be more they are. But I found more interesting what Elizabeth think about marrying and love, in chapter 22 she’s saying that the idealism of love for her is marry out of love and respect, but not for money or family name. So now we can see that she trying to find that in Mr.Darcy, not just his money(like her family). I think we will see it more in next chapters, as a main idea of a book.
ReplyDeleteRoman Shepeliev.